Where Does The Nissan Z Car Belong?

"RightFootDown" (rightfootdown)
06/25/2015 at 11:48 • Filed to: None

On paper, the Nissan Z should be a winner. When it was re-released in 2002, it represented the car we had been clamoring on and on about for a long time. $30,000’ish price tag, RWD, 300’ish horsepower, swoopy shape. It was a Porsche for half the money. And it !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for a bit. Somewhere around 30,000 cars per year in the U.S. I bought one used in 2007, it was a “performance” model in that great bright blue color. I loved it. Since the release however, the Z has been in fairly steady decline, Nissan moved just 7,199 Z car’s in 2014 and 2015 is on about the same pace. So what does Nissan need to do to revive a great concept? Well there are rumors that they are going down-market with the Z, and to that we say “yes”. Probably. Let’s take a quick trip down the current Z lineup first.

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Z Now

The !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! isn’t drastically different then it was in 2002 when launched. For 2015, you can get a base model, a sport model, a sport model with some “tech”, and a touring model, most of which were around more than a decade ago. New(er) is the NISMO model, which also comes in a “tech” model. There is a quick graphic to your left if you don’t care to venture over to Nissan’s website. Most Z’s feature a 332hp 3.7L V6 and even the base coupe, which still starts under $30,000, is spec’d pretty well. Each iteration gives you a bit more, as you would expect. The Sport adds a Limited-slip Differential, 19 RAYS® forged wheels, sport brakes, and Nissan’s SynchroRev Match® and takes you into the $33,000 sticker price range. Tech, as it sounds, adds some gadgets, Touring adds leather seating on top of said “tech”. The NISMO will set you back $42,000 but gives you a bump to 350hp as well as “Continuously Variable Valve Timing Control System (CVTCS) with advanced Variable Valve Event and Lift (VVEL®) technology”. Whew, that’s a mouthful. You also get some aero bits outside and NISMO stuff inside like Recaro seats and a new steering wheel, both with leather/alcantara trimmings. Finally NISMO Tech gets you the exact combination of stuff you would think and crests $45,000. So who is the Z competing with? We can’t really say where the Z should lie in the world automotive market until we figure that out. Is it Porsche? The Corvette? Let’s take a quick look.

Z Competitors

The Z lives in a strange world. It’s clearly more expensive than the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! twins, which (combined) sell roughly 3 times better than the Z. But the Z is much less expensive than the Corvette, which !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , roughly getting numbers the Z used to get back when it was new (Although Chevy hit a bit of a rough patch between 2009-2013). The Porsche Cayman !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! as the Z per year, but it’s Porsche, we expect that, right? Well, the 911 has been leaving U.S. dealers at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , so there’s that. Which leaves us asking, who is Nissan competing with exactly? Unless you’re the Miata, which only moves !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , you don’t necessarily need a competitor. But apparently Nissan thinks the Z does, which brings us to why I asked you all here today. Where does the Nissan Z car belong?

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Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Z Future

Nissan’s Shiro Nakamura told !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in a recent interview “ We would like to do something, I personally think, that is more in the original concept of Z, which is … more practical and appealing to younger customers ” and he continued with “ We are questioning ourselves in repeating the 350, 370. We don’t want to create 390Z, right? ” So what does that mean for the Nissan Z? The current platform is what it is, and may or may not be able to be “downsized”. What do we, humble auto journalists at RFD think Nissan should do as they are evaluating various options? We need a renaissance of the Nissan/Datsun days where they made cars that were synonymous with cheap, good looking cars. The original Z, the 510 come to mind. We’ve already seen the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This diminutive coupe captured the hearts and minds of many of us when Mr. Ghosn brought it to the Tokyo show in 2013. Whether or not Nissan will produce such a cool little coupe will depend on many factors, most of which are financially based. Building an IDX alongside the new, smaller, lighter, Z Car on the same platform just makes sense. As I mentioned above, the BRZ and FRS platform mates are selling three times as many cars as the Z Of course even then people are talking about poor sales figures for them, but I digress. Undercut the roughly $26,000 price of the Toyota-Subaru twins and ’86 them in sales. See what I did there? Keep it simple, base model, sport model, NISMO iterations for both cars. You can add the “tech” features if you want them on each model. Here are my proposed specs:

Nissan Z Coupe

MR16DDT – 1.6-liter Direct Injection Gasoline (DIG) DOHC 16-valve turbocharged 4-cylinder engine

Horsepower – 188 hp @ 5,600 rpm

Torque – 177 lb-ft @ 1,600 – 5,200 rpm

40 Miles Per Gallon

6-speed manual transmission

17 Wheels

Curb weight 2550 lbs

Nissan Z Sport

Limited-slip Differential

18 Wheels

Nissan sport brakes

SynchroRev Match®

Nissan Z NISMO

MR16DDT tuned to 230 hp

NISMO®-tuned suspension

18 RAYS® forged wheels

NISMO® aerodynamic body kit

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In keeping with Nissan’s “RS” lineup, you could include a Nissan Z NISMO RS featuring Recaro® sport bucket front seats, 12.6 Front vented disc brakes, and Increased chassis bracing similar to the Juke NISMO RS. The aforementioned IDx lineup would be configured similarly to the Z outlined above, but would be a 2+2 and thus weigh a bit more and likely be targeted to a different consumer. Heck, toss in a wagon version with sport and NISMO models and I’ll sign up to buy one right now.

As far as the design goes, honestly I’m on the fence. It’s tempting to go old school Datsun 240Z retro, long hood, short rear. But you could also keep it modern, with some GT-R touches in there to ensure that people recall the big daddy in the lineup. But I’m tired of typing at this point, I’ll leave it up to you all. What do you think the new smaller, lighter Z should look like? Post your favorite concept drawings, whatever you can dig up on the internet.

//Follow Will on Twitter @WilliamByrdUSA

DISCUSSION (29)

pauljones > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 11:53

At present, it’s essentially a Japanese pony car. I would also group the Hyundai Genesis in the pony car category as well. If the make the changes that they are thinking about, then it would probably shift into the lightweight sports car territory along with the BRZ, FT86, and Miata.

Matthew Phillips > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 11:53

I’m all for a FRS fighting Z that looks like a baby GT-R.

Just ensure that unlike the FRS we can get one of the higher spec V6’s.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 11:54

Honestly, the biggest thing for me with the 350 and 370 Z is it's just soo damn ugly! The 300 Z was such a classic and iconic design, so it was hard for the new one to live up to that. But not only did it not live up to it, it's just a really poor design in my mind. It's the ugliest car in the Nissan lineup. Granted, the GT-R isn't exactly a looker either (IMHO) but it's so balls to the wall that you can overlook that. Since the Z is not that, they have to do something to lure the buyer in. And while the design has changed, in my opinion it hasn't really evolved much since the 2002 relaunch. It just looks old and dated, and not in a good way.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 11:55

Honestly, the biggest thing for me with the 350 and 370 Z is it’s just soo damn ugly! The 300 Z was such a classic and iconic design, so it was hard for the new one to live up to that. But not only did it not live up to it, it’s just a really poor design in my mind. It’s the ugliest car in the Nissan lineup. Granted, the GT-R isn’t exactly a looker either (IMHO) but it’s so balls to the wall that you can overlook that. Since the Z is not that, they have to do something to lure the buyer in. And while the design has changed, in my opinion it hasn’t really evolved much since the 2002 relaunch. It just looks old and dated, and not in a good way.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 11:56

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 11:59

You know what it really needs is a 2.4L I6 motor with paper thin sheet metal and no safety features.

Kinja'd!!!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 12:05

Considering how it keeps getting fatter, I’d say it belongs backon the drawing board.

LongbowMkII > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 12:06

no 4 cyl Z. what you specced sounds like a great 510 coupe however.

but Nissan shouldn’t sell 2 RWD coupes. there just isnt a market to warrant that.

my proposal: 250z and 250z Turbo.

250z pushing a ~220 hp n/a 2.5l V6 (VQ replacement, current VQ is needs replacement from what I’ve read) and a turbo version pushing ~320hp.

both sharing the same modern light chassis with the turbo starting at the equivalent of the “sport/tech” level and sporting a more aggressive appearance kit. And the NISMO Z being a GT3 like pacakge rather than an everything package.

This setup would cover everything from the Toyobaru to the Camaro SS/ Mustang GT. and be priced similarly.

nermal > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 12:16

Peak Z was reached in 2003, when they sold 36k units. Compare that to this year, when they are on pace to be in the mid-6k range. (Source: goodcarbadcar.net). Call it an 80% drop in sales, conservatively.

The problem? The car got more expensive but not better. Put a ‘15 next to an ‘03, and they look pretty much the same.

The solution? Scrap everything and do a ground up, new model. New interior / exterior / platform / powertrain(s). The only thing it should share with the old models is a Z in the name. It needs to be not just new, but GOOD. Think MK7 GTI. Or new Corvette, which is selling at 4+ times the rate at twice the price of the current Z. Both are significantly better than the models that they replace, and sales reflect that.

The new Z needs to bridge the gap between the video game technology of the GTR, the angular, wedgy design of the 300zx, and the classic proportions of the 280z, while being different and standing out on it’s own as the best one yet. For a reasonable price, of course.

In other words, the Z is dead, because I doubt Nissan will invest what is necessary to do that.

Kanaric > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 12:27

The current Z is tired. It has been the same thing for 12 years and desperately needs a refresh.

It either needs a V8 and ability to take on American cars at the $30k range or it needs to downsize. If it downsized the S15 Silvia is the perfect target of what it should be. A 300HP turbo FRS.

I am fine with either way but the status quo is a failure. And so is upclassing it to $40k and above territroy like the 90s cars.

Kanaric > pauljones
06/25/2015 at 12:30

It doesn’t know what it wants to be. If it wnats to be a pony car it’s time to take Nissans V8 and put it in. The American cars have caught up to it.

If it doesn’t want to be a pony car it needs to basically turn into the S15. That would be the perfect car for it to target. Get a small V6 (a nissan with a 4 I think would be unacceptable to most people) and turbo it for like 300hp and have a 2800lb car the size of a FRS.

I would have bet they would have gone full pony car in the past. Either with a larger more powerful V6 (like a 4 liter) or a V8 and with a radical design change but right now i’m thinking they are going to make what pretty much would be a new S15 and call it a Z

E92M3 > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 12:45

It’s currently more GT car than sports car. Loosing some weight and cost would do it wonders. Once you approach $40k you can get a very nice hardly used Cayman. While down on power the overall experience is better. From build quality to handling.

37deezee > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 12:50

I’ve owned two 370zs. Bought the 09 base plus sport when they were released and now have a ‘14 Touring plus sport with Nav. Love this car. I am the first to say I wish it was a bit smaller, and lighter, but it has decent power and I truly feel its 3/4 of a Porsche for half the price. The platform is now getting a bit dated. All cars today are so big. We could definitely use some downsizing of the platform, but hope they keep a V6 and plenty of power. In my mind there is just so much freakin’ room between what you guys are talking about here... FRS type competitor and the next Nissan sports model the GTR. I certainly think there is room between here for a powerful, high tech, light, 2 seater Z. The GTR is now over $100K, my Z came in for around $40K. A lighter model with a puny engine, I would hope, would be much cheaper in order to compete with the FRS/ BRZ. That leaves even more room between $25K and $100K for a sports car. I say make the IDX with a turbo 4 and four seats, and make a new Z with 2 seats and more tech/power and go right at Porsche. Budget Porsche!

WiscoProud > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 12:56

I think what they have is right, it just costs too much. Well, and they need to actually update it. I think they have the right proportions and power, but an MSRP of $45k for a NISMO is getting dangerously close to a Corvette Stingray which has another 100hp.

If they dropped the price of everything, with the NISMO coming in at under $40k I think they would be successful. People will pay to get another 100-150hp over the Toyobaru twins, but won't pay $10-15k more. Not with how cheap HP has become.

William Byrd > Kanaric
06/25/2015 at 13:47

Yep, agreed. It’s already easily hitting the $40K mark with options. Sort of like the 300ZX, Supra and RX-7 did in the 90s. Well maybe not a literal $40K (although I bet it was close) but same idea.

Honestly, it’s a sports car so it competes with the Cayman, Corvette, etc. Maybe the Z4. I wouldn’t buy one currently b/c it has no back seat. I would buy any of the 3 V8 muscle cars though.

William Byrd > LongbowMkII
06/25/2015 at 13:51

I don’t know, a refresh and rethinking of the Z could mean a different engine. Turbo 4’s put out as much or more power than 6’s of the old days did. So if it’s just based on tradition, I’m not sure I agree.

As to 2 RWD coupes, you could be correct. But remember, platform sharing keeps costs down so maybe someone else in Ghosn’s family of cars gets a RWD coupe?

I like the spec’ing at the bottom and with the right chassis and engine combinations, that could be a reality.

William Byrd > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
06/25/2015 at 13:52

I certainly considered that. Nissan can do retro well if they chose to.

William Byrd > nermal
06/25/2015 at 13:53

So you’d go up market a bit and close the gap between the Z and the Corvette/Cayman? Would be risky but it could work. The GT-R has enough technology and engineering for 3 cars, they could certainly build a down-market GT-R with the proportions of a Z and go after the Chevy and Porsche if it were priced right.

William Byrd > Kanaric
06/25/2015 at 13:56

Not so sure about the 4 vs. 6. Z purists may scoff at a 4-cylinder, but the average buyer probably wouldn’t. Especially since you can have the power the current Z has with better economy and less weight with a turbo 4.

The G37 really became the car the Z didn’t with regard to competing with the pony/muscle cars. Back seat, aggressive look, but never had the HP to compete and Infiniti was being positioned against BMW and Mercedes anyway.

William Byrd > pauljones
06/25/2015 at 13:56

Good call on the Genesis, hadn’t thought about that.

LongbowMkII > William Byrd
06/25/2015 at 14:05

It could easily be converted to a G25/G30 Q30 (2+2) situation to compete against the CLA/A3/2series

a turbo 4 just seems limited. you can get ridiculous power (see Focus RS) but the ceiling has to be lower than a larger V6.

nermal > William Byrd
06/25/2015 at 14:09

As far as going upmarket, I don’t think there’s too much room to do so pricing wise. Keep it in the $35 - 50k range, and name it the 400Z. That opens up space for the IDX (IDZ? 290Z?) to slot in the $25 - 35k range.

They would then need to continue the path set by the GTR of competing several levels above its weight class. Focus on performace, technology, and new-and-exciting-ness. Pretty much the same thing that the original reboot did in ‘02. Make it a uniquely Nissan take on the RWD sports / muscle car that sells itself.

Kanaric > William Byrd
06/25/2015 at 14:55

“but the average buyer probably wouldn’t”

I wouldn’t be so sure. In fact the average buyer would scoff at the small lightweight 4 cylinder z all together as a concept which is why I think it’s a risky move. The general public would much more like a car similar to a Mustang or G37. They upsized it originally to capture the GT car, sports car, and luxocar crowds with one vehicle. It might work now with BMW and everyone having 4s. However all those cars have a 6 cylinder option for the people who hate 4s. All cars like that do because people byuing a car like that hate 4 cylinders usually. In the US at least.

Kanaric > William Byrd
06/25/2015 at 14:58

The best thing about a Z right now is you can get a sport one for $33k MSRP but the problem is at that price I could be a good murican and get a V8. Or get a nuts AWD car like a STI. It doesn’t help that despite the lighter weight of the Z still makes it slower in 0-60 and 1/4 mile and in track matchups on sites like motortrend. For 40k I could get a 1LE camaro and that would demolish a Z of any option at that price. Demolish it in every category aside weight, which is funny because the 1LE wouldl handle better, has better brakes, and pulls higher Gs.

William Byrd > Kanaric
06/25/2015 at 15:04

Maybe. But the smallest engine size usually sells the best across most models. I think in the end it has more to do with how it’s priced and how they market it. Currently it’s an upscale’ish coupe/roadster meant to compete with more expensive models. If it started at $23,000 or so, with a 200’ish HP 4-cylinder you’re in a whole new demographic. Again, I think you’re looking at it through an enthusiast/purish “Z = 6” lens. And you might be right, just not so sure.

William Byrd > Kanaric
06/25/2015 at 15:07

Plus, 2 seats. You’re really only marketing to younger buyers with money or middle-age crisis types looking for an attainable sports car. The problem is, with the markets and economy like they’ve been (improving but generally still down from the Clinton era) there aren’t as many in the 1st bracket and those in the 2nd bracket may be more image conscious and get something like a Cayman (better brand image) or Corvette (more “badass”).

Or, as you’re saying, just skip the 2-seater altogether and get a good ole American Hellcat! :) That’s how I’d spend my money, or a GT350 or something similar.

NJAnon > RightFootDown
06/25/2015 at 21:34

Its the “Chevrolet Camaro” of the Nissan lineup. Why? Because everyone cares about the Skylne. Just like everyone cares about the Corvette.

I wouldn’t mind getting a 350Z/370Z if my insurance wasn’t going to go up for having a 2door car.

Nauraushaun > RightFootDown
06/26/2015 at 20:47

This article focuses a lot on sales from the last year or two. Sales don’t tell the whole story. Of course it’s sold poorly the last year or two, it’s effectively at the end of it’s life. Its 6 years old, as old as the 350 was when it was replaced. To imply that it’s dead and and needs “revival” based on this is misguided.

What’s more, reporting on sales for 2015 - an incomplete year - isn’t an accurate gauge either.

Far more telling is that 370Z sales have never been strong, even in its early years.

Nauraushaun > nermal
06/26/2015 at 20:48

A huge part of the problem is the fact that the car is 6 years old. This isn’t a problem Nissan need to “fix”, it’s the natural order of things.